What Is Up With the Wood?
I've made several cellar visits since arriving in Beaune. Some of the producers' wines I have tasted previously, none of them would I describe as "woody" or "oaky". My impressions after the visits remain the same despite my learning, though conversations with winemakers, that most are using 30%-100% new wood. Again I just don't find it in the wines which surprises me considering the restrained nature of the fruit here in burgundy. The wines I have tasted have been very detailed and elegant, for the most part, and I am baffled as to where the wood goes, it certainly isn't balanced out by rich fruit characters.
To me this confirms a suspicion I have had for years: French coopers are saving the best wood for french winemakers. In a few cases Domains are aging there own wood and having barrels custom made. I just can't believe, after tasting, that we new world winemakers are on equal footing with our old world counterparts in terms of the quality of the wood we receive.
I cannot say that I am surprised by this. Burgundian winemakers have the coopers in their own back yards, literally. Some of the producers I have spoken with have indicated that not only are they good friends with the cooper but so where their fathers and their fathers before that. Producers here have the opportunity to work closely with coopers to customize the toasting process to better fit their style and sites. Whereas we in the new world only have the coopers general style to select from to create wines specific to our desired styles. Our approach is therefore much more ham-fisted than that of the Burundians.
In addition to being surprised at the level of new wood producers are using I am also surprised at the relative lack of microbial flaws in the wines, all of the wines I have tasted on visits I would describe as clean. This suggests that like myself, Burgundian producers consider the scars left by Brett and other spoilage organisms to be a more dreadful violation of "terrior" than New Oak.
I have to point out that I am not crying foul play here. Though I wish I had the opportunities to work closely with coopers to perfect the match between barrel and wine, and also wish that I could gain access to the same quality of wood as Burgundian producers, I also realize there is something else at work here. Tradition. It isn't just the knowledge of a vineyards character that is gained through 1500 years of wine growing. Relationships are, I believe, just as an important tradition for Burgundian producers as the knowledge of "terrior".
The best I can hope for then is that my great, great, grandchildren will bennefit from the first steps I take to developing relationships with coopers here in Europe. Tradition doesn't happen in a single lifetime.
[Your Name Here]
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Response: Oak Integration in Burgundy
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Good thoughts here Jerry.
I wonder if there are some additional things affecting oak influence/expression in American wines:
1. The consumer *wants* big oak character
2. Higher EtOH content might lead to greater extraction of these oak characteristics
3. Finally a speculation: does pH and TA (?along with ABV?) affect extraction of oak character?
Arthur,
In response:
1. If I compare my 40% new wood to The Burgundians 40% new wood, I must admit that my wines are more oaky. I have a difficult time seeing how the market pressure would influence my wine, unless the coopers themselves are giving us wood based on that assumption. I do think that New World winemakers are more likely to 'tolerate' oaky characters than our burgundian counterparts which if anything perpetuates the situation, if the coopers get no complaints then why change? I also admit that I may be alone in my assesment or be alone in my desire to get more 'balanced wood'.
2.I think you might have something here. However if we take the amount of time wine spends in the barrels I think this likely become less of an issue. If this is the case I would suspect that our 2nd fill barrels would then be less oaky than a 2nd fill burgundy barrel, which should ultimately result in wines with similiar oak profiles.
3. Again I think kinetic considerations, would be similiar to #2. I would also suspect that pH would have a more profound effect on extraction than TA, as pH is a much better indicator of the 'activity' of acids than TA. However I would speculate that the difference in TA between Oregon/Burgundy is much more dramatic that that of pH. So I cannot rule out the possibility that TA is a factor.
It would be interesting to get an enologists perspective on this, especially some one who has done some real science on oak and wine. Paul Hobbs maybe or someone at Gallo might be able to shed some light on the situation though I am not sure they would be willing to do so ( especially gallo ).
Arthur,
With more thought I might suggest that other than my initial assertion, simply put, that Burgundian producers get better wood than we new world winemakers get the 'next' best possible explanation is differences in tannin. To be honest I have zero science to support or even suggest this but perhaps the tannins in burgundy react differently with the elements of the wood and 'integrate' them differently than new wold wines do. This will ultimately lead to a chicken and egg dilemna; is it the raw materials ( the result of 'place' ) or is it technical? I do have to admit that most of the producers I have spoken with ( and this is my no means 'exhaustive research' ) manipulate their caps during fermentation much less than we tend to in the new world. So it could very well be that we are making wines that 'take wood' less well through out fermentation management practices. Of course 'place' is the easiest explanation but one much more difficult to experiment with in the new world. I know I for one will be doing some extraction experiments next vintage.
I know Clark Smith has thoughts on the relationship between a wines tannic structure and how it 'presents' aromatics. Given what we know about flavor and aroma, how it is perceived, it shouldn't be at all unreasonable to think that tannic structure could have a profound effect on how a wine presents 'oaky' components.
I'll stop there or run the risk of reaching the extremes of my incompetence.
Jerry:
I can see that you have been reading my stuff at grapecrafter.com – I’m flattered and encouraged.
I have long felt that the proximity and duration of relationships with good coopers has much to do with the apparent integration of wood in Burgundy, more than an innate property of the terroir. This accounts for the instant success in this area by Drouhin in Oregon.
The lightness of Burgundy gives me some pause as to application of the aromatic-integration-through-structure hypothesis, which clearly applies in big Cabernet and the like. Since, however, we see these effects even in the structured whites I make, I think the notion has merit. How you think about what you have may be more important than terroir. Begin with the notion of maximizing the reactive, structure-building portion of the tannin and color. This leads to precise practices regarding canopy management, maturity, and extraction which make a huge difference in flavor integration and depth.
Co-pigmentation strategies (using as little polymer and as much monomer as possible) are among the Burgundian tricks of the trade which hardly seem to get a hearing here. Cap manipulation is going to be fruitless without adequate cofactor; in fact it just makes matters worse. The hangtime craze not only leaves Pinot without unpolymerized co-factor, but also the higher alcohol destabilizes the extractive colloids.
An understanding of the timing complexities of Pinot is also critical, and here I fear we are perhaps two decades behind the French. As an example, so often I encounter the bonehead practice of lees stirring in young wines, destroying anthocyanins before structure has had a chance to form, and resulting in weak, dry wines with little staying power and poor aromatic integration. Foolish claims from Davis that different types of astringency relate exclusively to total tannin are a measure of how backward our thinking is. If one allows 6-8 months for structure to resolve, carefully conscious of temperature and oxygen availability (a cold cellar is death to Pinot), then lees stirring of the resulting structure will enhance oak integration. This is a lot like making a soufflé, where you must first make a meringue from the pure egg whites and only then fold in the yolks.
Perhaps at the core of the dilemma is the way we think about oak as a flavorant rather than a variety of structural enhancement tools. Of it’s seven functions, the important uses (and abuses) of oak -- copigmentation, reductive strength. Structural building blocks for aromatic integration, sweetness and framing -- are largely ignored domestically.
You are beginning to think and talk like a postmodernist. Welcome to GrapeCraft!
Clark
Jerry,
I know you, so I'm sure it's not an omission of thinking on your part, but I was surprised to see no mention of toast levels in your description of the differences between your use of wood and Burgundian. I assume you've factored that into your comparison but just left it out of your commentary.
Also, how does the chemistry of the harvested grape compare on average between Burgundy and, say Oregon? in terms of pH, sugar, phenols, etc?
Alder
I should clarify: what I meant was that you didn't explicitly state that you thought the toast levels you were using vs. burgundians' were comparable. I assume that they were close enough for you to not believe that was a significant factor?
Alder,
I would say there is a difference in toasting level, generally speaking, between the regions. It is hard to say for sure, as the cooperage we recieve here is marked differently than what we get here in the states ( If I am to compare barrel from the same cooperage ). Most of my comments were based on a relative lack of 'oaky' character, though you do make a very good point, the Burgundians seem to be less fixated on more intense toasting regiems.
I think this issue of toasting actually lends credence to my assertion that there is a distinct advantage to having the coopers in your own back yard. I have, since my initial post, visited other cellars and I believe that the availability of the coopers to the burgundian winemakers does allow them to more fine tune the pairing of barrel to wine. One producer I clearly shared my idea with saying "I think the coopers save the best wood for you". His response was " funny we tell the coopers they must be sending the best wood to you ( New world )". The burgundians are pretty tight lipped. I would go so far as to say the the choice of cooperage a winemaker makes is more a function of thier relationship with the cooper ( and the resulting degree of 'custom' production ) than the general character of the barrels ( note general, the only thing I can say for sure about burgundy is that it is impossible to make generalizations ).
In terms of chemistry, I don't think harvest chemistry would have any relevance, young wine chemistry might have an impact. However one still has to consider that the differences in wine chemistry from Burgundy to Oregon is very small ( considering vintage variation, wine style and site ) than the differnce in relationship with the cooper, the differnce is just that huge.
Clark,
So glad you drop in and share your thoughts! What I am summarising from your post is that there IS and advantage to tighter relationships with coopers?
I spoke to Doug Meador recently and encouraged him to contribute to this thread. As he has not, I'll relate what he told me in our discussion.
As part of the routine barrel prep (intended to ensure a seal between staves and the head) a barrel is rinsed before use.
Doug's thought was that while most U.S. winemakers rinse their barrels with cold water, the French use boiling water - which Meador suggests reduces the harder-edged flavor characteristics in the resulting wine.
Arthur,
I have also heard about Burgundians using salt water to rinse barrels to extract some of the oaky characters. I have used the technique but would have to characterize by results as inconclusive.
I think the main point to be made is that, for the most part and based on my limited experiences; burgundians are no more fearful of new wood than new world producers but that thier cooperage selection and how they handle cooperage are such that they minimize the new barrels impact on the wine to a much greater extent than new world winemakers.
I would be willing to bet that the burgundians choice of using new wood is more for reasons of minimizing microbial impact as well as the impact of 'old wood' ( don't fool yourself into thinking that barrels stay 'neutral' for long ) than using oak as a flavoring agent.